You came all this way and you didn't come to SoCal Vintage this past Saturday?cek wrote: Nov 06, 2023 3:57 PM Was in the Santa Barbara/SLO area this weekend. Reached out to Hans who sold me Vlad in 2013 (we've kept in touch).
Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
I had other priorities (involving a woman).
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Hi Charlie-
Do you happen to have a photo or a set of photos of Vlad's belly with this setup in place? I'd be curious to know if you had any issues with fitment, if you are running a catalytic converter (if yes, which one?), and where is your O2 sensor located.
I ask because when I did my M30B35 swap, the shop that did it installed a Supersprint header (SS #781401) and a Supersprint muffler (SS #781626), but in the middle portion, instead of using SS #781582 and SS#781523 (which you can see in your photo) they did some custom work which I think doesn't work (or sound) as well. I recall I had to travel abroad for a few weeks around the time they worked on the exhaust, perhaps there was some miscommunication with the shop, bottom line is I'm still baffled by that decision.
I'm just trying to right a wrong that has bugged me for some time... any help is appreciated -F
Do you happen to have a photo or a set of photos of Vlad's belly with this setup in place? I'd be curious to know if you had any issues with fitment, if you are running a catalytic converter (if yes, which one?), and where is your O2 sensor located.
I ask because when I did my M30B35 swap, the shop that did it installed a Supersprint header (SS #781401) and a Supersprint muffler (SS #781626), but in the middle portion, instead of using SS #781582 and SS#781523 (which you can see in your photo) they did some custom work which I think doesn't work (or sound) as well. I recall I had to travel abroad for a few weeks around the time they worked on the exhaust, perhaps there was some miscommunication with the shop, bottom line is I'm still baffled by that decision.
I'm just trying to right a wrong that has bugged me for some time... any help is appreciated -F
cek wrote: Jun 02, 2016 11:15 PM Yes. I did.
Now to see if I can find the time to get it installed before 5erWest.
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
No cat.Foonfer wrote: Nov 03, 2024 10:39 PM
Do you happen to have a photo or a set of photos of Vlad's belly with this setup in place? I'd be curious to know if you had any issues with fitment, if you are running a catalytic converter (if yes, which one?), and where is your O2 sensor located.
I have two O2 sensors. IIRC they are installed on the IE headers.
Scroll through here and there are many pics: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ckindel/a ... 7949745056
[/quote]
I ask because when I did my M30B35 swap, the shop that did it installed a Supersprint header (SS #781401) and a Supersprint muffler (SS #781626), but in the middle portion, instead of using SS #781582 and SS#781523 (which you can see in your photo) they did some custom work which I think doesn't work (or sound) as well. I recall I had to travel abroad for a few weeks around the time they worked on the exhaust, perhaps there was some miscommunication with the shop, bottom line is I'm still baffled by that decision.
I'm just trying to right a wrong that has bugged me for some time... any help is appreciated -F
[/quote]
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Thanks for the link Charlie, great photos and reference, but I wasn't able to find what I was looking for...
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Good excuse to test the uploader some more....
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Glad I tested. Had limits on file sizes too low...
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
This car and your blue car are simply stunning 
So cleanly done, and OEM+ goodness!
So cleanly done, and OEM+ goodness!
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
TEASER: This part of my Noob M30B35 thread will become relevant to y'all very soon...
viewtopic.php?p=1242784#p1242784
This post in particular:
viewtopic.php?p=1242784#p1242784
This post in particular:
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
The M30B35 in Vlad was the first engine I built. I knew when I was building that I'd likely do something wrong and eventually truly learn a valuable lesson some day.
I had hoped that there was only going to be ONE lesson. But even after the FIRST one where I had failed to torque the crank nut properly, I still had that nagging feeling.
First start of this engine in the car was July 10, 2014. The car had 178,500 miles on it.
It now has 214,677, so the engine has about 36k. In those 11 years and 35k miles I've had almost complete smiles! But, as noted, I just figured something I did wrong would eventually come back to bite me.
On Saturday, at 11,500 feet at the top of Red Mountain Pass it did.
Red Mountain Pass (Highway 550) is one of the most epic roads in America. It's also known as the Millon Dollar Highway because of how much it cost to build. It connects Silverton and Ouray Colorado. Amazing twisties and even more amazing views. On the Ouray side, the lack of guard rails and narrowness of the road is as butt puckering as it is stunning.
Anyway, I was leading the Drive4Corners pack up the Silverton side. Hauling ass as I have done dozens of times in Vlad (and my other cars). I never do more than 7/10s given the downsides of effing up, but I do push the car hard. Vlad eats it up. And was eating it up. The M30B35 was as silky smooth and torquey as ever, closing in on the redline regularly. Yum.
When we reached the top of the pass, I decided to pull over to pee. I shut the car off, peed, and we all chatted a bit. I got back in Vlad and he wouldn't start....
I had hoped that there was only going to be ONE lesson. But even after the FIRST one where I had failed to torque the crank nut properly, I still had that nagging feeling.
First start of this engine in the car was July 10, 2014. The car had 178,500 miles on it.
It now has 214,677, so the engine has about 36k. In those 11 years and 35k miles I've had almost complete smiles! But, as noted, I just figured something I did wrong would eventually come back to bite me.
On Saturday, at 11,500 feet at the top of Red Mountain Pass it did.
Red Mountain Pass (Highway 550) is one of the most epic roads in America. It's also known as the Millon Dollar Highway because of how much it cost to build. It connects Silverton and Ouray Colorado. Amazing twisties and even more amazing views. On the Ouray side, the lack of guard rails and narrowness of the road is as butt puckering as it is stunning.
Anyway, I was leading the Drive4Corners pack up the Silverton side. Hauling ass as I have done dozens of times in Vlad (and my other cars). I never do more than 7/10s given the downsides of effing up, but I do push the car hard. Vlad eats it up. And was eating it up. The M30B35 was as silky smooth and torquey as ever, closing in on the redline regularly. Yum.
When we reached the top of the pass, I decided to pull over to pee. I shut the car off, peed, and we all chatted a bit. I got back in Vlad and he wouldn't start....
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
We did all the standard diagnostics. It felt like fuel to me, but we quickly determined the fuel pump was pumping and fuel was flowing.
Spark was confusing. We saw (and I felt several times... Oops) spark at the coil but could not see spark at most plugs. We initally thought it may have been the coil wire or something, but soon realized the problem was probably the distributor cap and/or rotor.
Pulling the cap off re-enforced this idea. That's your problem right there!
I assumed I had been an idiot and hadn't changed the cap/rotor since I built the engine (or at least ages ago). But I just checked and I replaced it only about 5k miles ago. Anyway, up there at altitude with no cell service, we decided to pop the cap off Travis's M535i and see what one's supposed to look like. Not like this.
We then drove back to Durango and pulled the rotor and cap off Maytag, which only has about 6k miles on its M20B29.
After driving the 1.5 hours back up to the top in his M535, we plopped the "new" cap/rotor on.
No change in behavior.
Now, mind you, at this point during all the diagnostics we cranked the engine 20-30 times. Other than not starting it sounded normal. When I shut the car off to pee, there also was no weird noises of feels.
We took the cap off again, and I had Travis crank the car and noted the rotor was not turning.
That explains the weird spark issue...
We popped the valve cover off and immediately noticed this:
The timing chain pully has slid forward. The key is visible in the camshaft. One rocker is broken (only #1 exhaust).
...Back down to Durango, calling all my friends to see if a trailer is available. My buddy Alex, who is also my electrician has one. Travis & I get back up to the top of the mountain just before dark and load 'er up.
Totally dark by the time we head down. I've never seen so many deer! Every couple hundred feet, almost the entire way down, there were deer by the road. Needed to go slow anyway because of the janky trailer.
But we got back to Gruntled safe by about 10:30pm.
Spark was confusing. We saw (and I felt several times... Oops) spark at the coil but could not see spark at most plugs. We initally thought it may have been the coil wire or something, but soon realized the problem was probably the distributor cap and/or rotor.
Pulling the cap off re-enforced this idea. That's your problem right there!
I assumed I had been an idiot and hadn't changed the cap/rotor since I built the engine (or at least ages ago). But I just checked and I replaced it only about 5k miles ago. Anyway, up there at altitude with no cell service, we decided to pop the cap off Travis's M535i and see what one's supposed to look like. Not like this.
We then drove back to Durango and pulled the rotor and cap off Maytag, which only has about 6k miles on its M20B29.
After driving the 1.5 hours back up to the top in his M535, we plopped the "new" cap/rotor on.
No change in behavior.
Now, mind you, at this point during all the diagnostics we cranked the engine 20-30 times. Other than not starting it sounded normal. When I shut the car off to pee, there also was no weird noises of feels.
We took the cap off again, and I had Travis crank the car and noted the rotor was not turning.
That explains the weird spark issue...
We popped the valve cover off and immediately noticed this:
The timing chain pully has slid forward. The key is visible in the camshaft. One rocker is broken (only #1 exhaust).
...Back down to Durango, calling all my friends to see if a trailer is available. My buddy Alex, who is also my electrician has one. Travis & I get back up to the top of the mountain just before dark and load 'er up.
Totally dark by the time we head down. I've never seen so many deer! Every couple hundred feet, almost the entire way down, there were deer by the road. Needed to go slow anyway because of the janky trailer.
But we got back to Gruntled safe by about 10:30pm.
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Now you see why the link to my engine build thread is relevant...
This picture was taken March 30, 2014 at 3:47pm. I'm now certain that was the precise time I fucked up (again).
I most likely failed to properly torque that nut.
Gary Aling told me Sunday that he had an M30 fail like this, but it happened within the first 100 miles. So at least I'm not alone, and at least I got 11 years and 36k miles of total enjoyment out of the engine before my mistake bit me in the ass.
Now, how do I make lemonade out of these lemons?
This picture was taken March 30, 2014 at 3:47pm. I'm now certain that was the precise time I fucked up (again).
I most likely failed to properly torque that nut.
Gary Aling told me Sunday that he had an M30 fail like this, but it happened within the first 100 miles. So at least I'm not alone, and at least I got 11 years and 36k miles of total enjoyment out of the engine before my mistake bit me in the ass.
Now, how do I make lemonade out of these lemons?
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Now, how do I make lemonade out of these lemons?
First, by just acknowledging "I get to do this". I mean, really? How cool!
Then, by remembering in 2020 I bought a brand-new Paul Burke built M30 head from @cooperman. As most of you know, Paul was THE world's M30 expert until he passed away. The engine in Vlad is built to HIS specs based on hours and hours of conversations I was blessed to have had with him before he passed.
Prescient, no?
Yesterday, I put my new bore scope down the spark plug holes to inspect the pistons. Not only are they not damaged, but the cyl. walls still look great.
So, assuming the camshaft wasn't damaged where they key raceway is (I'll get it magnafluxed), the "fix" will be as easy as putting new rockers in the head, getting a new pully (just assuming it's damaged), and plopping the new head on.
Of course, that's not REALLY Tig Style Lemonade. For that, I need to use this as the PERFECT opportunity to do a bunch of other stuff to Vlad that has been looming:
First, by just acknowledging "I get to do this". I mean, really? How cool!
Then, by remembering in 2020 I bought a brand-new Paul Burke built M30 head from @cooperman. As most of you know, Paul was THE world's M30 expert until he passed away. The engine in Vlad is built to HIS specs based on hours and hours of conversations I was blessed to have had with him before he passed.
Prescient, no?
Yesterday, I put my new bore scope down the spark plug holes to inspect the pistons. Not only are they not damaged, but the cyl. walls still look great.
So, assuming the camshaft wasn't damaged where they key raceway is (I'll get it magnafluxed), the "fix" will be as easy as putting new rockers in the head, getting a new pully (just assuming it's damaged), and plopping the new head on.
Of course, that's not REALLY Tig Style Lemonade. For that, I need to use this as the PERFECT opportunity to do a bunch of other stuff to Vlad that has been looming:
- Inspect the oil pump and rebuild if needed. I rebuilt it when I built the engine and I always sorta thought IT was the thing that was going to cause this motor to esplode someday.
- Put in a G265 transmission. The G260 in the car has death rattle bad, and last time I changed the fluid there was a ton of metal shavings on the magnet on the cap.
- Put in the M5 tighter-ratio steering box I purchased 10 years ago for this car.
- Reseal the bottom end which has started leaking. Definitely the oil pan gasket and timing chain covers, but also probably the rear main seal.
- Fix some annoyances in the engine bay wiring, particularly the hack wiring job the PO did installing headlight relays. Just easier to do without an engine in the car.
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Sorry to hear about the mishap but it sounds like it could have been MUCH worse.
When I did my M30B35 swap (following your advice), I had to find a gearbox because M20-->M30. I had a shot at a G260, but wanted a G265 and found one in the unlikeliest of places: FB marketplace, at the right time, and not far from the shop where my car was (this must be as close as you can get to the definition of "luck"). Of course it was a G265/6 and not a G265/5 because I'm not made of money. BUT. The stock sheetmetal gearshift lever support part was nowhere to be found, and I wanted (again, following your advice) a short shifter from Autosolutions. In absence of the stock part, and for not a lot more money, Roland made this spatial structure which blew my mind - a piece of art and ingenuity destined to never be seen, when it should be in full display. Good luck with your G265!
When I did my M30B35 swap (following your advice), I had to find a gearbox because M20-->M30. I had a shot at a G260, but wanted a G265 and found one in the unlikeliest of places: FB marketplace, at the right time, and not far from the shop where my car was (this must be as close as you can get to the definition of "luck"). Of course it was a G265/6 and not a G265/5 because I'm not made of money. BUT. The stock sheetmetal gearshift lever support part was nowhere to be found, and I wanted (again, following your advice) a short shifter from Autosolutions. In absence of the stock part, and for not a lot more money, Roland made this spatial structure which blew my mind - a piece of art and ingenuity destined to never be seen, when it should be in full display. Good luck with your G265!
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Holy shit that's awesome. Mines a G265/5 too. I was wondering how I'd adapt my Autosolutions shifter!
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Damn. Well, sorry that it happened but excited to see the head put into good use!
I'm about to put a bottle of red loctite on my cam nut.
I'm about to put a bottle of red loctite on my cam nut.
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Does the cam gear also act as the camshaft thrust bearing in the M30? The cam seems to have moved rearward in the pics. If there's anything else in there that's supposed to be handling this, it didn't.
Good thing the shoe didn't drop when it was spun up. I imagine the camshaft has enough inertia at 6000 RPM to continue spinning just long enough to really make a mess of things.
Good thing the shoe didn't drop when it was spun up. I imagine the camshaft has enough inertia at 6000 RPM to continue spinning just long enough to really make a mess of things.
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Chimi-Changa
- Posts: 1777
- Joined: Nov 08, 2011
- Location: Westborough, MA
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Crazy stuff Charlie. I can relate! Sounds like it could have been worse and glad you have one of those heads ready on the shelf. You needed a reason to put that in something!!
Which 265? /5? Curious what final drive you plan on running. I ended up with a S2.93 in mine. ( my 265/5 is going back in after input/layshaft bearing change- fingers crossed)
Which 265? /5? Curious what final drive you plan on running. I ended up with a S2.93 in mine. ( my 265/5 is going back in after input/layshaft bearing change- fingers crossed)
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
265/5.
Is the gearing in a 265/5 different than a 260?
Is the gearing in a 265/5 different than a 260?
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
I'll copypaste this that I found elsewhere in case that other link ever goes dead:
_______________________________
The ratios for the 260/5, 260/6 and the 265/6 are:
1st - 3.83 : 1 - (3.82 for the 265/6)
2nd - 2.20 : 1
3rd - 1.40 : 1
4th - 1.00 : 1
5th - 0.81 : 1 - (Overdrive)
reverse - 3.46 : 1 - (3.71 for the 265/6)
Oil Capacity - 2.65 Pts. or 1.25 Ltr. - (3.4 Pts. or 1.6 Ltr. for the 265/6)
The ratios for the 280/5 are:
1st - 3.51 : 1
2nd - 2.08 : 1
3rd - 1.35 : 1
4th - 1.00 : 1
5th - 0.81 : 1 - (Overdrive)
reverse - 3.73 : 1(?)
Oil Capacity - 2.65 Pts. or 1.25 Ltr.
The ratios for the 265/5 CR are:
1st - 3.72 : 1
2nd - 2.40 : 1
3rd - 1.77 : 1
4th - 1.26 : 1
5th - 1.0 : 1
reverse - 4.23 : 1
The ratios for the 4 Speed 262/(?) are:
1st - 3.86 : 1
2nd - 2.00 : 1
3rd - 1.40 : 1
4th - 1.0 : 1
reverse - 4.23 : 1
_____________
source: https://bigcoupe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=18798
I thought this information would be much more readily available... took a while to find it in one place. Perhaps it should be added to the Wiki --> https://wiki.mye28.com/index.php/Drivetrain
cheers!
_______________________________
The ratios for the 260/5, 260/6 and the 265/6 are:
1st - 3.83 : 1 - (3.82 for the 265/6)
2nd - 2.20 : 1
3rd - 1.40 : 1
4th - 1.00 : 1
5th - 0.81 : 1 - (Overdrive)
reverse - 3.46 : 1 - (3.71 for the 265/6)
Oil Capacity - 2.65 Pts. or 1.25 Ltr. - (3.4 Pts. or 1.6 Ltr. for the 265/6)
The ratios for the 280/5 are:
1st - 3.51 : 1
2nd - 2.08 : 1
3rd - 1.35 : 1
4th - 1.00 : 1
5th - 0.81 : 1 - (Overdrive)
reverse - 3.73 : 1(?)
Oil Capacity - 2.65 Pts. or 1.25 Ltr.
The ratios for the 265/5 CR are:
1st - 3.72 : 1
2nd - 2.40 : 1
3rd - 1.77 : 1
4th - 1.26 : 1
5th - 1.0 : 1
reverse - 4.23 : 1
The ratios for the 4 Speed 262/(?) are:
1st - 3.86 : 1
2nd - 2.00 : 1
3rd - 1.40 : 1
4th - 1.0 : 1
reverse - 4.23 : 1
_____________
source: https://bigcoupe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=18798
I thought this information would be much more readily available... took a while to find it in one place. Perhaps it should be added to the Wiki --> https://wiki.mye28.com/index.php/Drivetrain
cheers!
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Oh. I’m doing. 264/6 (not cr not dogleg). Had the numbering backwards.
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Foonfer wrote: Aug 12, 2025 1:26 PM
I thought this information would be much more readily available... took a while to find it in one place. Perhaps it should be added to the Wiki --> https://wiki.mye28.com/index.php/Drivetrain
cheers!
Please, please, please just log into the wiki and edit that page yourself. Thanks!
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
tig wrote: Aug 12, 2025 5:44 PMFoonfer wrote: Aug 12, 2025 1:26 PM
I thought this information would be much more readily available... took a while to find it in one place. Perhaps it should be added to the Wiki --> https://wiki.mye28.com/index.php/Drivetrain
cheers!Please, please, please just log into the wiki and edit that page yourself. Thanks!
Just because you asked nicely - it's done. As a table so it's even easier to read!
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
M30s for many years used a locking flange on the cam nut. At some point they went to locktite. Yes, one or the other or both. Tig might have torqued it properly, but without a locking flange or locktite.szacsi72 wrote: Aug 06, 2025 9:47 AM Damn. Well, sorry that it happened but excited to see the head put into good use!
I'm about to put a bottle of red loctite on my cam nut.
I've built a lot of engines over the years and only use a torque wrench in a few places, head bolts, crank main bearing bolts, rod bolts/nuts and flywheel bolts. Maybe or maybe not a couple more, but very few places. I do use locktite in a number of places and I don't have problems with things coming loose.
Now I don't ascribe to it, but there's a school of thought among some engine builders that every fastener should either have anti seize or locktite on it. But I see the point even if it is going too far.
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Hey charlie,
I just rebuilt my cylinder head and playing around with it, with the sprockets and everything off, I was unable to push the cam back significantly, or at least not to the point where the rocker would slide off enough to cause damage.
Looking at your pictures, It *appears* that the rockers are still on the cam lobes, altought not centered, but on them.
However your chain sprocket is very, very very off, I can basically see the entirety of the woodruff key.
I really don't want to be negative but my gut is telling me that it may have jumped timing... Did you have the time to check this yet?
I just rebuilt my cylinder head and playing around with it, with the sprockets and everything off, I was unable to push the cam back significantly, or at least not to the point where the rocker would slide off enough to cause damage.
Looking at your pictures, It *appears* that the rockers are still on the cam lobes, altought not centered, but on them.
However your chain sprocket is very, very very off, I can basically see the entirety of the woodruff key.
I really don't want to be negative but my gut is telling me that it may have jumped timing... Did you have the time to check this yet?
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
szacsi72 wrote: Oct 16, 2025 7:41 AM Hey charlie,
I just rebuilt my cylinder head and playing around with it, with the sprockets and everything off, I was unable to push the cam back significantly, or at least not to the point where the rocker would slide off enough to cause damage.
Looking at your pictures, It *appears* that the rockers are still on the cam lobes, altought not centered, but on them.
However your chain sprocket is very, very very off, I can basically see the entirety of the woodruff key.
I really don't want to be negative but my gut is telling me that it may have jumped timing... Did you have the time to check this yet?
I have not dug into this. However, I don't think there's any way it could NOT have jumped timing.
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
tig wrote: Oct 16, 2025 11:00 AMszacsi72 wrote: Oct 16, 2025 7:41 AM Hey charlie,
I just rebuilt my cylinder head and playing around with it, with the sprockets and everything off, I was unable to push the cam back significantly, or at least not to the point where the rocker would slide off enough to cause damage.
Looking at your pictures, It *appears* that the rockers are still on the cam lobes, altought not centered, but on them.
However your chain sprocket is very, very very off, I can basically see the entirety of the woodruff key.
I really don't want to be negative but my gut is telling me that it may have jumped timing... Did you have the time to check this yet?
I have not dug into this. However, I don't think there's any way it could NOT have jumped timing.
Hopefully the valve-kiss (if there was one) didn't damage anything else. Really keen to see what happened on the inside.
Pouring a whole bottle of loctite on the thing as we speak
Pouring a whole bottle of loctite on the thing as we speak
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
Sorry to see your M30 troubles! On the bright side the cam gear didn't come loose at 6k rpm comin up/down the mountain
What trans is a 264/6?tig wrote: Aug 12, 2025 2:25 PM Oh. I’m doing. 264/6 (not cr not dogleg). Had the numbering backwards.
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
A thick-fingered-typo trans.
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stuartinmn
- Posts: 9752
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006
- Location: Minneapolis
Re: Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is
I'm late to this discussion but I noticed a post by Tig in August about his Paul Burke cylinder head. I was just thinking about Paul this week - I knew years ago that he had been in poor health but then he dropped out of sight. I didn't know he had died. 
At one point he was in need of a Pontiac engine block for a customer's GTO and I happened to have one with the right date codes, so he and his dog made a banzai trip to Minneapolis on a frigid night in the middle of winter to get it. We got it loaded into his van, and he turned around and banzai'd back to Kansas City. He was a cool dude, I wish we'd had a chance for a longer conversation that night.
At one point he was in need of a Pontiac engine block for a customer's GTO and I happened to have one with the right date codes, so he and his dog made a banzai trip to Minneapolis on a frigid night in the middle of winter to get it. We got it loaded into his van, and he turned around and banzai'd back to Kansas City. He was a cool dude, I wish we'd had a chance for a longer conversation that night.