Im planning to put a MasterPower t70 turbo on, and Im curious if the Compressor housing will clear the block with the standard Bottom mount TCD Manifold.
Right now it looks pretty close, so i think with a T04s 4" inlet housing, it might get really close or touch the block(or maybe even hit the manifold).
I was thinking worst case I could use a T4 flange as a spacer with longer studs.
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T04S style Compressor Fit on bottom mount?
well, I want lots of power without running too much boost.
Im hoping for 500rwhp or more with less than 20lb of boost.
It seemed my last turbo, (t04b h-3) didnt have much more to give after about 16 psi(I tired turning up the boost, and never would get more than about 16psi)..
Id like to make Much more power at the same 16psi.
Then later turn up the boost and end up with High boost settings of around 550-600rwhp.
Im hoping for 500rwhp or more with less than 20lb of boost.
It seemed my last turbo, (t04b h-3) didnt have much more to give after about 16 psi(I tired turning up the boost, and never would get more than about 16psi)..
Id like to make Much more power at the same 16psi.
Then later turn up the boost and end up with High boost settings of around 550-600rwhp.
Uh, I don't think it works like that. Your motor will flow exactly the same amount of air at 16 psi with any turbo, not considering compressor efficiency. It doesn't matter if its a T70 or a GT35, 16psi is 16psi. If you stick on a huge compressor and use it at low boost, you wont make very good power at all, and you'll probably have problems with surge. Unless you make some serious engine modifications, using a larger compressor isn'g going to do anything for you. Do you know how to read compression maps?
I understand the values on a compressor map, and ive mapped out some theoretical flow, though im definitly no expert at all.
Boost is relative, When your running a turbo thax not big enough, it will DEFINITLY make less power than a turbo which is efficient at that flow rate. I dont think im in the MEAT of the efficieny range on my turbo, and theres NO WAY im going past 500rwhp with my t04b.
And I believe Id make DRASTICALLY different power numbers at 20-22 psi on a t04b than a t70.
I believe my car will make a GOOD deal more power at 16psi with the T70, than it did with my old t04b.
I think i was already near the limits of the turbo, and extra boost wuldnt have added much power at all, unlike with the t70.
I wouldnt be the first person to make these claims, or have these findings when switching to larger turbos.
I may be wrong though, Ill definitly get it dynoed at the about 15psi Wastegate spring I got. And well see how it turns out.
Worst case, ill have to run lots of boost. Whatever is needed to make the power.
Boost is relative, When your running a turbo thax not big enough, it will DEFINITLY make less power than a turbo which is efficient at that flow rate. I dont think im in the MEAT of the efficieny range on my turbo, and theres NO WAY im going past 500rwhp with my t04b.
And I believe Id make DRASTICALLY different power numbers at 20-22 psi on a t04b than a t70.
I believe my car will make a GOOD deal more power at 16psi with the T70, than it did with my old t04b.
I think i was already near the limits of the turbo, and extra boost wuldnt have added much power at all, unlike with the t70.
I wouldnt be the first person to make these claims, or have these findings when switching to larger turbos.
I may be wrong though, Ill definitly get it dynoed at the about 15psi Wastegate spring I got. And well see how it turns out.
Worst case, ill have to run lots of boost. Whatever is needed to make the power.
90e34535i wrote:well, I want lots of power without running too much boost.
Im hoping for 500rwhp or more with less than 20lb of boost.
Id like to make Much more power at the same 16psi.
Then later turn up the boost and end up with High boost settings of around 550-600rwhp.
Interesting. Please to inform us of what kind of airflow volumes you are/intend to get from your head. Ditto the flow numbers and backpressure readings from your exhaust.
How did you "turn up" the boost? Did you use a MBC, EBC or did you change the wastegate spring?
Just so we're clear, the amount of power your engine can make is essentially only a function of the mass of air it is taking in. The higher the pressure and/or the more dense the air, the more mass of air goes into the engine, so the more power it can make. This means the more boost you run and the cooler the air, the more mass you're cramming into the engine, so the more power you'll make. This all assumes you can provide the fuel to make said power.
This brings me to my line of questions.
What size injectors were you running? What were you using to control the boost? Were you using an intercooler? What were you using to control injection and ignition?
Just so we're clear, the amount of power your engine can make is essentially only a function of the mass of air it is taking in. The higher the pressure and/or the more dense the air, the more mass of air goes into the engine, so the more power it can make. This means the more boost you run and the cooler the air, the more mass you're cramming into the engine, so the more power you'll make. This all assumes you can provide the fuel to make said power.
This brings me to my line of questions.
What size injectors were you running? What were you using to control the boost? Were you using an intercooler? What were you using to control injection and ignition?
Turning up the boost on a turbo that is too small will indeed yield little to no increase in power. This is due to being way out of the efficiency band for the airflow you're asking it to push. More air, but way more heat. You're right that you likely need a larger turbo, but going from TO4b to a T70 is the equivalent of having a Honda Civic, finding it slightly too small for your needs and going out and buying a Suburban.
Yes, the turbo you're looking at can likely push the air you want at a lower boost level, but I doubt your motor will be able to spool it effectively. You can only effectively increase power by cramming more air in there so much. At some point you need to look at decreasing airflow restrictions in the intake tract.
Jeremy
Yes, the turbo you're looking at can likely push the air you want at a lower boost level, but I doubt your motor will be able to spool it effectively. You can only effectively increase power by cramming more air in there so much. At some point you need to look at decreasing airflow restrictions in the intake tract.
Jeremy
Pretty much what I'm trying to say is that your engine dictates flow. Regardless of the turbo thats making 16 psi, its going to make the same amount of power. If you want more power, you have to either increase boost or modify your engine. The same engine will make the same amount of power at the same boost pressure. The only difference between what you have and a larger turbo is where they are designed to make boost. I don't think you could modify an M30 to the point where a T70 could even be close to appropriate. Its designed to work at a much higher rate of flow than the M30 is really capable of. It might work on an s38, but not on an M30.
Other than compressor efficiency, the other thing you have to consider when sizing a turbo for your engine is compressor surge. A T70 is going to try to push a whole lot of air in as soon as it starts to spool up. If your engine can't use all of this, it has nowhere to go but back out through the compressor. So the turbo ends up spooling up and rapidly slowing down as boost backs up in the intake. Thats very hard on the turbo and it won't make very good power at all. If I were you I would start with your target power output. Once you know what youre shooting for, you can figure out how much boost its going to take. Knowing that, you can begin to plot out your engines operating range on compression maps. Thats the only way to know what the correct compressor is. Just sticking a massive turbo on is a bad idea.
Other than compressor efficiency, the other thing you have to consider when sizing a turbo for your engine is compressor surge. A T70 is going to try to push a whole lot of air in as soon as it starts to spool up. If your engine can't use all of this, it has nowhere to go but back out through the compressor. So the turbo ends up spooling up and rapidly slowing down as boost backs up in the intake. Thats very hard on the turbo and it won't make very good power at all. If I were you I would start with your target power output. Once you know what youre shooting for, you can figure out how much boost its going to take. Knowing that, you can begin to plot out your engines operating range on compression maps. Thats the only way to know what the correct compressor is. Just sticking a massive turbo on is a bad idea.
Thanks for all the interest guys, though my question hasnt been answered yet, thats ok.
A couple answers, I used a cheap bleed off manual boost controller while running a 15-16psi wastegate spring.
The T70 im talking about is very close in size to a t66(same major compressor wheel size, t70 minor).
What else would you recommend for 600+rwhp and spending less than $650 for the turbo? It also uses the exact same P-trim exhaust wheel as I currently have, so I have an On-center housing for it already.
Im not worried at all about spooling it, worst case ill drop an A/R ratio to like a .69 or even lower.
Ken h: DAMN! i fergot to take those backpressure reading! How about Im thinking I was making over 400rwhp, and I was on the right side of my Compressor Map. I want to make a bunch more power, hence the cheap Fat turbo.
Basically, Ill do watever I can to get each system to flow as well as possible.
I got 60lb injectors right now, with a 255lph fuel pump.
Im using full 3" charge pipes with very few smooth bends, with 3" inlet/out on my liquid intercooler, which has a 4" thick core. It may not cool the air the best, but you can tell it will flow a lot of air with little restriction.
So, basically, im hoping this will be the last turbo I buy, and that it will be fun enough for a while at 16psi, before I need to step up the boost.
Lets just see what happens.
A couple answers, I used a cheap bleed off manual boost controller while running a 15-16psi wastegate spring.
The T70 im talking about is very close in size to a t66(same major compressor wheel size, t70 minor).
What else would you recommend for 600+rwhp and spending less than $650 for the turbo? It also uses the exact same P-trim exhaust wheel as I currently have, so I have an On-center housing for it already.
Im not worried at all about spooling it, worst case ill drop an A/R ratio to like a .69 or even lower.
Ken h: DAMN! i fergot to take those backpressure reading! How about Im thinking I was making over 400rwhp, and I was on the right side of my Compressor Map. I want to make a bunch more power, hence the cheap Fat turbo.
Basically, Ill do watever I can to get each system to flow as well as possible.
I got 60lb injectors right now, with a 255lph fuel pump.
Im using full 3" charge pipes with very few smooth bends, with 3" inlet/out on my liquid intercooler, which has a 4" thick core. It may not cool the air the best, but you can tell it will flow a lot of air with little restriction.
So, basically, im hoping this will be the last turbo I buy, and that it will be fun enough for a while at 16psi, before I need to step up the boost.
Lets just see what happens.